I have no intention of making decisions for her. If this was not Haji, it would be far more straight forward.
If it was a lover, then they can move on if she doesn't come back. She would be able to decide while only considering what is best for her, because they don't require her. Haji does not have that.
Even in rejecting hope, she would likely feel guilt, like 'how dare she choose what's easier for her, what if he is alive, how could she be so selfish?' And her other dark thoughts.
There is no answer where there isn't a lot of pain. The not telling, have Haji is the least amount of pain, even if it might not be the 'right' choice, but getting there without something giving first is very risky.
Made more complicated in that she has expressed not wanting to remember things, she has asked I not tell her what is in the research journal of that man, so any hope her reaction is going to be some level of reasonable if I tell her at any point without Haji is going to be...
Well, frankly, I would probably ask Wukong to be there both to be emotional support because at least he does get most of this sort of thing and because he can pin her down so she doesn't do something incredibly stupid.
If you really trust her, then you'll tell her and let her make those choices.
[ Simply. Succinctly.
And, after a beat, ]
You'll also trust her to manage her own emotional reaction to it.
[ Who's Wukong, frankly, but he knows Saya connects with people fast and furious. Still seems like an oversight to invite him instead of her husband, but Yuri is choosing to hope Red wasn't sharing the full guest list there. ]
I'm treating her like someone whose spent centuries being the strongest being around learning that the last living member of what is, without question, hers may not be dead.
But he is beyond her reach.
And those in the way, despite her centuries of instincts, are not something she can or should kill for what's hers. Depending on if she wants to go for the power users or the darkness itself.
Then it's a matter of what's faster. Her flying or being able to calm down.
You just keep talking about how she can't handle this, can't handle that. How it's going to destroy her. How you're going to need someone else to hold her down.
I don't recommend that last one, by the way. She hates being restrained.
2/3 | one of those conversations made awk bc they've both killed her
She can handle most things. This thing? This is something that is a weak spot, a very clear, big weak spot. You don't blame a dryad for not being able to handle a forest fire. She doesn't expect me to be strong or immediately rational about my weak points and she is prepared when she decides to push them.
I won't expect her to hear this and 'manage her emotional reaction' because she is going to be drowning in her emotional reaction.
If you can't respect she is allowed to be weak in regards to this, then you are a terrible option to tell her.
[ Yuri's expression flickers, briefly insulted, before it becomes clear that Red's just... projecting. After all, when did he say anything about weakness being bad, much less unacceptable? When did he say Saya wasn't going to be upset? When did he even say she wasn't going to fall apart?
The realization drains his anger, leaving him tired. ]
She's like a tropical storm, always has been. It'll be terrible for a little while — and then it'll pass. She won't drown, and neither will you.
And it'll be a million times better than if you do all of this without telling her, because she takes betrayal pretty seriously.
[ which is what lying to an intimate partner is, just. fyi ]
['Manage her emotional reaction' implies some ability to not fly off the handle. Red Son knows there is no staying on that handle. Nor does he expect it.]
[That combined with Yuri's seeming lack of understanding how much Haji means paints a pretty poor picture of what Yuri gets about this situation.]
I am not worried about me. [Because he was never afraid of her. He was afraid what his lying could do TO HER even with the best of intentions. He could accept her anger. He didn't want her pain.]
It'll be a hurricane at minimum.
How is there a betrayal? [Sorry, gotta spell that out because he doesn't see it.]
[ oh well guess Red's gonna be stuck with that impression at least for now ] [ and there's this brief, stupid, childish impulse to say wanna bet? but he shoves it down, and that reminder that Red's so... very new at all of this helps ]
When you're close with someone — especially when you've agreed to share part of your life with them — you don't lie to them. You definitely don't lie about big things.
A direct lie, yes. Omission gets...tricky, depending.
But its not my want to lie to her. I know if she finds out I think Haji is alive in any other way than me telling her or presenting Haji would end badly. I know that quite keenly.
She'd be furious at some point, but she would also understand why I did it that way, and the storm of the rest of her emotions would help counter some of the hurt.
Its still messy, but it'd spare the pain of waiting.
Or spare her the pain if I'm wrong. Because that is also a possibility. Less likely, but still possible.
If I'm wrong, then the only bit of pain she's spared is my keeping something from her.
Weren't you the one so focused on how much she didn't want to remember? Or did I finally convince you of the difference? [Dryly.]
[He sighs and lifts up a bottle to get a waiters attention for more.]
It's not the first time I had to play bad guy. I just don't want to. I really, really don't want to. I'm too selfish to want to risk her being so angry at me. But I can't make this decision for my sake either. It's not about me.
I just...
I need someone who gets what I'm actually asking. Who understands the breadth of this decision. I can't make this decision lightly or because I'm afraid what she'd think of me and I'm terrible at empathy and you, simply put, do not understand what Haji means. What you're saying about him goes against what Saya has told me explicitly.
[He accepts the bottle as it's put down and he opens it. And just drinks a good third of it.]
But I know someone who would understand this scenario. Who can be empathetic from Saya's side. I was just hoping I didn't have to talk to him. So if you're convinced that's truly the right course of action...
[ Yuri's eyebrows lift. All the friendliness and the empathy seep out of his expression. Cool and flat: ]
And here I thought we agreed we'd been told different things. Sure, they contradict each other, but that's not exactly unusual for the lady in question.
"Why won't you agree with me that I should lie to my girlfriend? It can't be because that's fundamentally wrong, so it must be because you just don't understand how important this lie is. I'll go get a second opinion!"
[ Yuri's impression of you is not super flattering, Red. There's a definite whine to his mimicry that isn't in your usual speaking voice. ]
Oh, and by the way? This isn't playing the bad guy.
If you're going to do something you know is wrong in the name of protecting other people — at least have the guts to own up to it. This isn't a stage and you aren't playing some cute little role you were assigned. Nothing that fun or that dramatic.
[ Leaning back in his seat. ]
You're just being kind of a crappy, controlling boyfriend. Boring. Typical. Human, frankly.
Your impression is terrible. [Flatly, looking unimpressed.]
And typically, demons are inclined to those terrible emotions, at least according to literally every other species. Kind of insulting humans more than me.
[He has heard these kind of speeches before. How low he is. It's nothing new.]
And you were the one who spent the first part of this conversation equating Haji's life to a memory and how others might be hurt because of a bond none of us could match. If I had taken you at that point, the answer would have been lie.
I know lying is wrong, I know it's a bad idea, I know it could go so very terribly. I convinced you of that point.
But I was told two reasons for why Saya doesn't make Chevaliers. I'm sure you know the first one, the compulsion involved.
The second is she doesn't believe she could take the heartbreak of losing another. Not another lover. Not another person. Another Chevalier.
And there is room for me being wrong. It would be another heartbreak. I can't discount I could be wrong.
I want someone who understands that to tell me the right thing to do is to tell her anyway. That my first impulse was right before everything else made it complicated.
If you're confident in your answer, he will agree. He's unfortunately the best person to ask this question.
And if he agrees, it means I know there is at least one person who can help her deal with the fallout if she decides she can't look at me.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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I trust Saya.
And she trusts me.
I have no intention of making decisions for her. If this was not Haji, it would be far more straight forward.
If it was a lover, then they can move on if she doesn't come back. She would be able to decide while only considering what is best for her, because they don't require her. Haji does not have that.
Even in rejecting hope, she would likely feel guilt, like 'how dare she choose what's easier for her, what if he is alive, how could she be so selfish?' And her other dark thoughts.
There is no answer where there isn't a lot of pain. The not telling, have Haji is the least amount of pain, even if it might not be the 'right' choice, but getting there without something giving first is very risky.
Made more complicated in that she has expressed not wanting to remember things, she has asked I not tell her what is in the research journal of that man, so any hope her reaction is going to be some level of reasonable if I tell her at any point without Haji is going to be...
Well, frankly, I would probably ask Wukong to be there both to be emotional support because at least he does get most of this sort of thing and because he can pin her down so she doesn't do something incredibly stupid.
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[ Simply. Succinctly.
And, after a beat, ]
You'll also trust her to manage her own emotional reaction to it.
[ Who's Wukong, frankly, but he knows Saya connects with people fast and furious. Still seems like an oversight to invite him instead of her husband, but Yuri is choosing to hope Red wasn't sharing the full guest list there. ]
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Stop treating her like a newborn baby made of nitroglycerin.
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But he is beyond her reach.
And those in the way, despite her centuries of instincts, are not something she can or should kill for what's hers. Depending on if she wants to go for the power users or the darkness itself.
Then it's a matter of what's faster. Her flying or being able to calm down.
1/2
I don't recommend that last one, by the way. She hates being restrained.
2/3 | one of those conversations made awk bc they've both killed her
[ Beat. ]
If you're worried she'll hurt herself, she'll heal.
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Or let me tell her. Maybe she should hear it from someone who isn't afraid of her.
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I won't expect her to hear this and 'manage her emotional reaction' because she is going to be drowning in her emotional reaction.
If you can't respect she is allowed to be weak in regards to this, then you are a terrible option to tell her.
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The realization drains his anger, leaving him tired. ]
She's like a tropical storm, always has been. It'll be terrible for a little while — and then it'll pass. She won't drown, and neither will you.
And it'll be a million times better than if you do all of this without telling her, because she takes betrayal pretty seriously.
[ which is what lying to an intimate partner is, just. fyi ]
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[That combined with Yuri's seeming lack of understanding how much Haji means paints a pretty poor picture of what Yuri gets about this situation.]
I am not worried about me. [Because he was never afraid of her. He was afraid what his lying could do TO HER even with the best of intentions. He could accept her anger. He didn't want her pain.]
It'll be a hurricane at minimum.
How is there a betrayal? [Sorry, gotta spell that out because he doesn't see it.]
1/2
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[ A little helplessly for a moment. ]
When you're close with someone — especially when you've agreed to share part of your life with them — you don't lie to them. You definitely don't lie about big things.
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I will take that under advisement. [That is not as dismissive as it might sound. It's a Factor in the mix.]
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It's kind of unspoken, I guess? You're trusting the people you care about not to lie to you. So it's a betrayal of that trust when they do.
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But its not my want to lie to her. I know if she finds out I think Haji is alive in any other way than me telling her or presenting Haji would end badly. I know that quite keenly.
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She just might, you know, be inclined to overlook the... betrayal... on account of everything else she was feeling in the moment.
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Its still messy, but it'd spare the pain of waiting.
Or spare her the pain if I'm wrong. Because that is also a possibility. Less likely, but still possible.
If I'm wrong, then the only bit of pain she's spared is my keeping something from her.
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It's still a betrayal even if she never finds out.
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[He sighs and lifts up a bottle to get a waiters attention for more.]
It's not the first time I had to play bad guy. I just don't want to. I really, really don't want to. I'm too selfish to want to risk her being so angry at me. But I can't make this decision for my sake either. It's not about me.
I just...
I need someone who gets what I'm actually asking. Who understands the breadth of this decision. I can't make this decision lightly or because I'm afraid what she'd think of me and I'm terrible at empathy and you, simply put, do not understand what Haji means. What you're saying about him goes against what Saya has told me explicitly.
[He accepts the bottle as it's put down and he opens it. And just drinks a good third of it.]
But I know someone who would understand this scenario. Who can be empathetic from Saya's side. I was just hoping I didn't have to talk to him. So if you're convinced that's truly the right course of action...
He's going to agree.
I just have to be sure.
1/3
And here I thought we agreed we'd been told different things. Sure, they contradict each other, but that's not exactly unusual for the lady in question.
2/3
[ Yuri's impression of you is not super flattering, Red. There's a definite whine to his mimicry that isn't in your usual speaking voice. ]
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If you're going to do something you know is wrong in the name of protecting other people — at least have the guts to own up to it. This isn't a stage and you aren't playing some cute little role you were assigned. Nothing that fun or that dramatic.
[ Leaning back in his seat. ]
You're just being kind of a crappy, controlling boyfriend. Boring. Typical. Human, frankly.
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And typically, demons are inclined to those terrible emotions, at least according to literally every other species. Kind of insulting humans more than me.
[He has heard these kind of speeches before. How low he is. It's nothing new.]
And you were the one who spent the first part of this conversation equating Haji's life to a memory and how others might be hurt because of a bond none of us could match. If I had taken you at that point, the answer would have been lie.
I know lying is wrong, I know it's a bad idea, I know it could go so very terribly. I convinced you of that point.
But I was told two reasons for why Saya doesn't make Chevaliers. I'm sure you know the first one, the compulsion involved.
The second is she doesn't believe she could take the heartbreak of losing another. Not another lover. Not another person. Another Chevalier.
And there is room for me being wrong. It would be another heartbreak. I can't discount I could be wrong.
I want someone who understands that to tell me the right thing to do is to tell her anyway. That my first impulse was right before everything else made it complicated.
If you're confident in your answer, he will agree. He's unfortunately the best person to ask this question.
And if he agrees, it means I know there is at least one person who can help her deal with the fallout if she decides she can't look at me.
Then I will figure out how to tell her.
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2/4 idk
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