A direct lie, yes. Omission gets...tricky, depending.
But its not my want to lie to her. I know if she finds out I think Haji is alive in any other way than me telling her or presenting Haji would end badly. I know that quite keenly.
She'd be furious at some point, but she would also understand why I did it that way, and the storm of the rest of her emotions would help counter some of the hurt.
Its still messy, but it'd spare the pain of waiting.
Or spare her the pain if I'm wrong. Because that is also a possibility. Less likely, but still possible.
If I'm wrong, then the only bit of pain she's spared is my keeping something from her.
Weren't you the one so focused on how much she didn't want to remember? Or did I finally convince you of the difference? [Dryly.]
[He sighs and lifts up a bottle to get a waiters attention for more.]
It's not the first time I had to play bad guy. I just don't want to. I really, really don't want to. I'm too selfish to want to risk her being so angry at me. But I can't make this decision for my sake either. It's not about me.
I just...
I need someone who gets what I'm actually asking. Who understands the breadth of this decision. I can't make this decision lightly or because I'm afraid what she'd think of me and I'm terrible at empathy and you, simply put, do not understand what Haji means. What you're saying about him goes against what Saya has told me explicitly.
[He accepts the bottle as it's put down and he opens it. And just drinks a good third of it.]
But I know someone who would understand this scenario. Who can be empathetic from Saya's side. I was just hoping I didn't have to talk to him. So if you're convinced that's truly the right course of action...
[ Yuri's eyebrows lift. All the friendliness and the empathy seep out of his expression. Cool and flat: ]
And here I thought we agreed we'd been told different things. Sure, they contradict each other, but that's not exactly unusual for the lady in question.
"Why won't you agree with me that I should lie to my girlfriend? It can't be because that's fundamentally wrong, so it must be because you just don't understand how important this lie is. I'll go get a second opinion!"
[ Yuri's impression of you is not super flattering, Red. There's a definite whine to his mimicry that isn't in your usual speaking voice. ]
Oh, and by the way? This isn't playing the bad guy.
If you're going to do something you know is wrong in the name of protecting other people — at least have the guts to own up to it. This isn't a stage and you aren't playing some cute little role you were assigned. Nothing that fun or that dramatic.
[ Leaning back in his seat. ]
You're just being kind of a crappy, controlling boyfriend. Boring. Typical. Human, frankly.
Your impression is terrible. [Flatly, looking unimpressed.]
And typically, demons are inclined to those terrible emotions, at least according to literally every other species. Kind of insulting humans more than me.
[He has heard these kind of speeches before. How low he is. It's nothing new.]
And you were the one who spent the first part of this conversation equating Haji's life to a memory and how others might be hurt because of a bond none of us could match. If I had taken you at that point, the answer would have been lie.
I know lying is wrong, I know it's a bad idea, I know it could go so very terribly. I convinced you of that point.
But I was told two reasons for why Saya doesn't make Chevaliers. I'm sure you know the first one, the compulsion involved.
The second is she doesn't believe she could take the heartbreak of losing another. Not another lover. Not another person. Another Chevalier.
And there is room for me being wrong. It would be another heartbreak. I can't discount I could be wrong.
I want someone who understands that to tell me the right thing to do is to tell her anyway. That my first impulse was right before everything else made it complicated.
If you're confident in your answer, he will agree. He's unfortunately the best person to ask this question.
And if he agrees, it means I know there is at least one person who can help her deal with the fallout if she decides she can't look at me.
[ baby it wasn't supposed to be a good impression, it was supposed to be an insulting impression, ] [ but hey he's not angry anymore he's too busy being incredulous ]
...you think that's what I was saying about Haji? You think you convinced me that lying was wrong.
[ There are no words for how much you have misunderstood everything he's been saying. It is genuinely bewildering. How does he even reply to the rest of this when the disconnect is that fundamental. ]
I told you he was alive and you went on and on about how she doesn't want to remember him, acting like her opinions when he was dead would be the same if he wasn't.
You asked if I knew about chevaliers, I said yes. We agreed that she'd said she didn't want to remember him when she thought he was dead. We disagreed about why she hadn't wanted to remember him, because we were told different things.
[ And then Yuri asked a couple of questions because he didn't want to accidentally tell Red something that Saya might have wanted him not to, because Saya was and is his priority over Red. Something he's very sure Red would agree with and understand. ]
The rest of this conversation has been about you insisting you were gonna find Haji with or without her consent, and with or without her knowledge.
[ When you weren't busy making assumptions about and insulting him, anyway. ]
You said, outright, him being dead or alive didn't matter for her not wanting to remember. That she didn't want her feelings for him to mess with her current relationships.
I had to convince you him being alive did matter. That it did change things.
That is a fundamental difference in our understandings of her and her Chevaliers.
And that difference has made us have two extremely different conversations.
So, not only do you think that's what I was saying, you think you managed to convince me otherwise. And you think the proof is that I "no longer" want you to lie to her.
Is that. What you're telling me right now?
[ because appaaaaarently the communication so far here has been a steady 0%, so now we have to triple check ]
I don't know, maybe some of the words I was actually saying?
[ Dragging a hand down his face. ]
Look. You wanted advice on how to tell her, I've already given it. You don't like that advice, fine: that's your right. You want to ask someone else? [ Dare he hope her husband. ] Go for it.
But when you tell him what I said, you'd better get it right. I told you to be honest with her about what you're doing before you make a move, and I told you to listen if — for whatever reason — she doesn't want you to go looking. That is the sum total of my advice.
[ If Red tries to interrupt here, Yuri will hold up a hand. ]
Is that unfair to him? Would it be cruel of her? Would it hurt both of them? Yeah. Maybe. To the version of him that's alone, anyway.
[ Because fuckin multiverses, how do they work. There's probably plenty of versions of her world where she never left it. And he has to believe that the Flynn he met in Imeeji isn't out there somewhere looking for him, or he'll go crazy. ]
But you have that conversation with her first. You convince her that this is what she needs to do. You get her on board for the reunion before you send out engraved invitations.
I don't know what all your powers can do. I've been assuming you can't hop dimensions right now. [ Surely you would've left Ellipsa as soon as you arrived! ] If all you want to do here is find some way to confirm he's still alive before you talk to her — go for it. That's not the kind of lie I've been arguing against.
[ And the thought that it might be all Red really wanted is exhausting. ]
But if you were planning on bringing him here and springing him on her without being three hundred percent sure she both wants and is ready for that — then I think you'd be setting them both up for the only pain worse than having part of your soul torn out.
[ It's one thing to have a hole inside where they used to be when you can at least tell yourself they'd be with you if they could. It's another thing to face the rejection. ]
In what world does 'she doesn't want to remember' translate to anything, but 'its a bad idea to tell her?' Because the last time she told me she doesn't want to know something, not telling her was the right option. She gave me a research journal and she has been quite happy with me not telling her a damn thing about what's in it.
But those variables never changed.
If you didn't mean for that to be don't tell her, whatever you were "actually saying" [Complete with air quotes] was as clear as the deepest park of the ocean. A clarity you have yet to provide, by the way.
That has been my point of conflict. Telling her isn't a matter of if. It's always been when.
Do I do it sooner, when I don't have a guaranteed answer? Do I bet that the evidence is as strong as I believe and I'm not simply being arrogant? Do I risk her heartbreak on my perception?
Or do I wait until I can offer a reunion, or at least closure? And hope this place doesn't drag out my suspicions before that.
[So be exhausted, Yuri, that is actually all he wanted.]
I'm not going to tell anyone I talked to you. Or tell her. Whatever consequences there are for this revelation, I'm not putting any blame for my decision on others. Unless it goes real swimmingly, I guess, and then you're the savior from my own neurosis, but doesn't seem likely.
But I suppose that misunderstanding is my fault, I was probably not clear. I didn't intend to physically spring Haji on her. Just know where I can take her to him before hand.
[ ....................yeah, that's. Wow. He's incredibly tired, and he does not enjoy being told, yet again, that he 'clearly' doesn't understand the stakes here. There was a lot of very sincere emotion in what he just said about having a part of your soul torn out, and it just. Pretty much sucks that Red breezed right past it. Way to prove that he was right to resist being more emotionally honest earlier in this conversation. ]
[ Why is he even bothering at all, when he's so clearly not being listened to. It's like Red Son just... decided this conversation wasn't going to be productive a long ways back, and the rest of it has been on autopilot. ]
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I will take that under advisement. [That is not as dismissive as it might sound. It's a Factor in the mix.]
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It's kind of unspoken, I guess? You're trusting the people you care about not to lie to you. So it's a betrayal of that trust when they do.
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But its not my want to lie to her. I know if she finds out I think Haji is alive in any other way than me telling her or presenting Haji would end badly. I know that quite keenly.
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She just might, you know, be inclined to overlook the... betrayal... on account of everything else she was feeling in the moment.
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Its still messy, but it'd spare the pain of waiting.
Or spare her the pain if I'm wrong. Because that is also a possibility. Less likely, but still possible.
If I'm wrong, then the only bit of pain she's spared is my keeping something from her.
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It's still a betrayal even if she never finds out.
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[He sighs and lifts up a bottle to get a waiters attention for more.]
It's not the first time I had to play bad guy. I just don't want to. I really, really don't want to. I'm too selfish to want to risk her being so angry at me. But I can't make this decision for my sake either. It's not about me.
I just...
I need someone who gets what I'm actually asking. Who understands the breadth of this decision. I can't make this decision lightly or because I'm afraid what she'd think of me and I'm terrible at empathy and you, simply put, do not understand what Haji means. What you're saying about him goes against what Saya has told me explicitly.
[He accepts the bottle as it's put down and he opens it. And just drinks a good third of it.]
But I know someone who would understand this scenario. Who can be empathetic from Saya's side. I was just hoping I didn't have to talk to him. So if you're convinced that's truly the right course of action...
He's going to agree.
I just have to be sure.
1/3
And here I thought we agreed we'd been told different things. Sure, they contradict each other, but that's not exactly unusual for the lady in question.
2/3
[ Yuri's impression of you is not super flattering, Red. There's a definite whine to his mimicry that isn't in your usual speaking voice. ]
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If you're going to do something you know is wrong in the name of protecting other people — at least have the guts to own up to it. This isn't a stage and you aren't playing some cute little role you were assigned. Nothing that fun or that dramatic.
[ Leaning back in his seat. ]
You're just being kind of a crappy, controlling boyfriend. Boring. Typical. Human, frankly.
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And typically, demons are inclined to those terrible emotions, at least according to literally every other species. Kind of insulting humans more than me.
[He has heard these kind of speeches before. How low he is. It's nothing new.]
And you were the one who spent the first part of this conversation equating Haji's life to a memory and how others might be hurt because of a bond none of us could match. If I had taken you at that point, the answer would have been lie.
I know lying is wrong, I know it's a bad idea, I know it could go so very terribly. I convinced you of that point.
But I was told two reasons for why Saya doesn't make Chevaliers. I'm sure you know the first one, the compulsion involved.
The second is she doesn't believe she could take the heartbreak of losing another. Not another lover. Not another person. Another Chevalier.
And there is room for me being wrong. It would be another heartbreak. I can't discount I could be wrong.
I want someone who understands that to tell me the right thing to do is to tell her anyway. That my first impulse was right before everything else made it complicated.
If you're confident in your answer, he will agree. He's unfortunately the best person to ask this question.
And if he agrees, it means I know there is at least one person who can help her deal with the fallout if she decides she can't look at me.
Then I will figure out how to tell her.
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...you think that's what I was saying about Haji? You think you convinced me that lying was wrong.
[ There are no words for how much you have misunderstood everything he's been saying. It is genuinely bewildering. How does he even reply to the rest of this when the disconnect is that fundamental. ]
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How does that not point to don't tell her?
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[ Just. What. ]
You asked if I knew about chevaliers, I said yes. We agreed that she'd said she didn't want to remember him when she thought he was dead. We disagreed about why she hadn't wanted to remember him, because we were told different things.
[ And then Yuri asked a couple of questions because he didn't want to accidentally tell Red something that Saya might have wanted him not to, because Saya was and is his priority over Red. Something he's very sure Red would agree with and understand. ]
The rest of this conversation has been about you insisting you were gonna find Haji with or without her consent, and with or without her knowledge.
[ When you weren't busy making assumptions about and insulting him, anyway. ]
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I had to convince you him being alive did matter. That it did change things.
That is a fundamental difference in our understandings of her and her Chevaliers.
And that difference has made us have two extremely different conversations.
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Is that. What you're telling me right now?
[ because appaaaaarently the communication so far here has been a steady 0%, so now we have to triple check ]
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Why else bring up multiple times she doesn't want to remember? What else could I possibly take from that except don't tell her?
1/3
[ Dragging a hand down his face. ]
Look. You wanted advice on how to tell her, I've already given it. You don't like that advice, fine: that's your right. You want to ask someone else? [ Dare he hope her husband. ] Go for it.
But when you tell him what I said, you'd better get it right. I told you to be honest with her about what you're doing before you make a move, and I told you to listen if — for whatever reason — she doesn't want you to go looking. That is the sum total of my advice.
2/3
Is that unfair to him? Would it be cruel of her? Would it hurt both of them? Yeah. Maybe. To the version of him that's alone, anyway.
[ Because fuckin multiverses, how do they work. There's probably plenty of versions of her world where she never left it. And he has to believe that the Flynn he met in Imeeji isn't out there somewhere looking for him, or he'll go crazy. ]
But you have that conversation with her first. You convince her that this is what she needs to do. You get her on board for the reunion before you send out engraved invitations.
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I don't know what all your powers can do. I've been assuming you can't hop dimensions right now. [ Surely you would've left Ellipsa as soon as you arrived! ] If all you want to do here is find some way to confirm he's still alive before you talk to her — go for it. That's not the kind of lie I've been arguing against.
[ And the thought that it might be all Red really wanted is exhausting. ]
But if you were planning on bringing him here and springing him on her without being three hundred percent sure she both wants and is ready for that — then I think you'd be setting them both up for the only pain worse than having part of your soul torn out.
[ It's one thing to have a hole inside where they used to be when you can at least tell yourself they'd be with you if they could. It's another thing to face the rejection. ]
1/3
But those variables never changed.
If you didn't mean for that to be don't tell her, whatever you were "actually saying" [Complete with air quotes] was as clear as the deepest park of the ocean. A clarity you have yet to provide, by the way.
2/3
If you did, then you'd know checking if Haji is alive is simply not an option.
If I never even checked, and Saya found out, regardless of any of my other actions?
It would burn the bridge between us.
Instantly.
Not even curing her hibernation can stand in the face of it.
[Of that, he has no doubt.]
Maybe if she explicitly told me to not look, specifically not to look, it may save the bridge. Maybe.
But with what she knows of me, and what she's told me to do in the past, I even doubt that possibility. There would still be damage.
[She knows how thorough he is. More than that, she's told him when she's hurt, when she's afraid to lose, she runs. Isolates. Let's herself suffer.]
[And she told him to go after her anyway, no matter how much she tells him not to.]
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That has been my point of conflict. Telling her isn't a matter of if. It's always been when.
Do I do it sooner, when I don't have a guaranteed answer? Do I bet that the evidence is as strong as I believe and I'm not simply being arrogant? Do I risk her heartbreak on my perception?
Or do I wait until I can offer a reunion, or at least closure? And hope this place doesn't drag out my suspicions before that.
[So be exhausted, Yuri, that is actually all he wanted.]
I'm not going to tell anyone I talked to you. Or tell her. Whatever consequences there are for this revelation, I'm not putting any blame for my decision on others. Unless it goes real swimmingly, I guess, and then you're the savior from my own neurosis, but doesn't seem likely.
But I suppose that misunderstanding is my fault, I was probably not clear. I didn't intend to physically spring Haji on her. Just know where I can take her to him before hand.
1/2
2/4 idk
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